tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19318880.post7619625025932253696..comments2024-01-13T15:34:42.074-05:00Comments on Fighting in the Shade™: Adiós Madams Liberty and JusticeΛΕΟΝΙΔΑΣhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04976785560712692275noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19318880.post-61411504140474675292011-01-06T09:16:49.285-05:002011-01-06T09:16:49.285-05:00Wasn't the purpose of the revolution to establ...Wasn't the purpose of the revolution to establish a new government? It's always been my impression that when they signed the Declaration they were telling King George to shove off, they were going to run things now. That's what I meant by not considering themselves British subjects. They knew the Brits considered the FF to be subjects, but the FF had no intention of staying subjects.Solarishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08941458483523156652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19318880.post-81377618693440062812011-01-04T09:21:10.038-05:002011-01-04T09:21:10.038-05:00The signers of the 1776 Declaration DID in fact co...The signers of the 1776 Declaration DID in fact consider themselves "British" subjects and admitted that they would be hanged as traitors. The revolution was an ultimately successful effort to CHANGE their status.ΛΕΟΝΙΔΑΣhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04976785560712692275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19318880.post-63756533252463203842011-01-04T08:39:40.481-05:002011-01-04T08:39:40.481-05:00@ ΛΕΟΝΙΔΑΣ: Oh, I agree that the British thought i...@ ΛΕΟΝΙΔΑΣ: Oh, I agree that the British thought it was treason. There's a fundamental difference, though. The Founding Fathers didn't consider themselves British subjects. Their actions had a purpose behind them. I'm having difficulty seeing the purpose behind Manning's actions other than "I'm pissed off and here's how I'm gonna get revenge". I think a lot of the conservatives who want this kid's blood are going overboard. I think that the fellas defending him, saying he's a hero, are going also overboard. He provided an opportunity for us and for the enemies in office to try and undo some damage, but I don't think that was his goal. If ya got any evidence otherwise, I'd be more'n happy to peruse it - I'm never adverse to improving my opinion on someone.Solarishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08941458483523156652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19318880.post-34252010229174540222011-01-03T22:24:31.707-05:002011-01-03T22:24:31.707-05:00Solaris: "The Founding Fathers had some notio...Solaris: "<i>The Founding Fathers had some notions about what they were doing, no?</i>"<br /><br />What they had done 1776-1783 was considered "treason" by those who they did it to.<br />Just sayin'.ΛΕΟΝΙΔΑΣhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04976785560712692275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19318880.post-64725680056008526092011-01-03T21:24:50.678-05:002011-01-03T21:24:50.678-05:00Speaking as a guy who'd just as soon spit in M...Speaking as a guy who'd just as soon spit in Manning's eye as look at him... they're going over the line with him. I'm not so terribly concerned about detaining him for a period of time (hey, it's UCMJ - don't like it, don't join) but they're treating him worse than people who've actually fired weapons at US servicemembers. Convicted murderers get better treatment. Hell, we had to detain a child molester in our unit and (much as we would've liked to beat him) we somehow managed to not torture him like that.<br /><br />At best, they can get Manning for espionage, what with the US Constitution being so stringent in its definitions of treason. The Founding Fathers had some notions about what they were doing, no?Solarishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08941458483523156652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19318880.post-51897877919581595122010-12-30T16:22:02.552-05:002010-12-30T16:22:02.552-05:00Well reasoned. I stand corrected.
He is a 'mi...Well reasoned. I stand corrected.<br /><br />He is a 'military traitor'. <br />No sympathy for Traitors.<br />.sofahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05980976047602693896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19318880.post-22602621532564241792010-12-30T12:55:48.991-05:002010-12-30T12:55:48.991-05:00Sofa,
Manning may be a traitor in the strictly def...Sofa,<br />Manning may be a traitor in the strictly defined military sense of the word; as for "treason", revealing the contents of State Dept. cables during <b>peace time</b> fails to qualify.<br /><br />U.S. Constitution, Article III Sec 3:<br />"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in <b>levying war</b> against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court..."<br /><br />Congress has not seen fit to declare war since June of 1942. This is why "Hanoi Jane" was able to give <b>real</b> "aid and comfort" to the North Vietnamese and not be prosecuted.ΛΕΟΝΙΔΑΣhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04976785560712692275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19318880.post-66087697037014631852010-12-30T12:17:36.901-05:002010-12-30T12:17:36.901-05:00Manning volunteered and took an Oath; and willingl...Manning volunteered and took an Oath; and willingly signed legal documents when he joined the military, when got a clearance, and again when he was 'read in'. What he did is defined as Treason according to documents he signed and military orders he acknowledged.<br /><br />(His oath, and the documents he signed, give Manning one reason to violate orders: Orders repugnant to the Constitution. That argument is not be made.)<br /><br />Manning was a fool.<br />Sorry- No sympathy for traitors.<br /><br />***<br /><br />Assange is an avowed hater of Western Civilization and of America in particular. Although he is human excrement- Assange is under no obligations and did as he pleased with information that came across his desk.<br /><br />Completely different situation.sofahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05980976047602693896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19318880.post-68295548780060586222010-12-24T22:40:17.778-05:002010-12-24T22:40:17.778-05:00Nick,
Having myself experienced troop harassment i...Nick,<br />Having myself experienced troop harassment in the former more disciplined "brown shoe" Army I find it difficult to accept that OCS is "much worse" than what is being meted out to what amounts to a political prisoner.<br /><br />Manning's treatment has only one purpose and that is to torture him into implicating Assange in a "conspiracy". As for me, I have lost all respect for the ruling elite of this formerly "free" republic.ΛΕΟΝΙΔΑΣhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04976785560712692275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19318880.post-71116241316738119712010-12-24T16:32:19.073-05:002010-12-24T16:32:19.073-05:00I got treated much worse in OCS.
But, seriously, ...I got treated much worse in OCS.<br /><br />But, seriously, if this account of his detention is true, it's unnecessarily harsh, particularly for a person who has not yet been convicted.<br /><br />Even if he had been convicted, this is pretty abusive. <br /><br />The hours being kept awake are not remarkable for a soldier, but holding those hours while being confined to a small cell with nothing to do is harsh. A sniper might lie in the prone, outdoors, for days without moving and with little sleep, but he volunteers and is trained for that. And he knows when his hardship will end.<br /><br />Not being allowed to exercise in the cell is ridiculous. The lack of mental and physical stimulus can drive a man insane. It's unnecessarily cruel. If I were Manning, I'd break every rule and tire them out disciplining me. How much worse could it get?<br /><br />He might be on suicide watch which could explain many of these measures, but we don't know that to be a fact. That's the most plausible reason for checking on him and taking his clothes.<br /><br />I wonder if they plan to keep this up for the rest of his life if he's convicted. My guess is that once they've secured a conviction, they won't care if he kills himself or not.<br /><br />Things like this are part of the reason I retired. This crap doesn't just happen to military prisoners. The sorry fact is that the Army often treats soldiers in a similar fashion during training and daily, peacetime operations. Give a man some power over others, and he think's he's Napoleon.<br /><br />I had nothing but disdain for the people who treated me, a field grade officer in his 40s, as if I were a reckless, immature private.<br /><br />As a Captain, I was once ordered to guard weapons all night because the battalion commander <b>suspected</b> I had done something inappropriate. I had no relief, even to use the bathroom. It was restriction tantamount to confinement, and he never explained the reason for it.Hot Samhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10848778804406692799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19318880.post-42398600558125010062010-12-21T11:41:34.828-05:002010-12-21T11:41:34.828-05:00Check out Fred Thompson giving that same Veteran s...Check out Fred Thompson giving that same Veteran speech here http://www.purespontaneity.com/2010/11/11/its-the-soldier-sir/Ray https://www.blogger.com/profile/12393552405355993983noreply@blogger.com